Is Mono Dead? Microsoft should buy Mono Team

Question

OK, so after reading the link on other forum post,
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/is-mono-dead-is-novell-dying/8821

I am stunned. Is this even possible? I have spent so much time and effort in both MonoTouch and MonoDroid.

Attachmate is the company that owns Novell and recently has fired at least some of Novell's Mono, the open-source implementation of Windows' .NET, team. It appears at least 800 employees have been let go in total. Is this the end of Mono? Of Novell?

In my understanding, it is a big advantage for Microsoft to keep the Mono products alive. If I am Microsoft, I would buy and support the Mono team.

Mahesh Chand · Answer

Thanks for waking up this thread Sam. Now I can go back and start building my Android app. Now, I don't need to build it in Java :)

Sam Hobbs · Answer

The gates are now open for using Mono for Android ; see Novell/Xamarin Partnership around Mono . Xamarin will be supporting and selliing it and the other Mono tools and Xamarin will now support the Mono open source community project. See the Xamarin store for purchases. There will be a Monospace conference this weekend. Also see the Xamarin mobile products available now! « xamarin press release. For those interested in knowing how things fit together for Android and Mono, see Architecture - Mono for Android .

Mahesh Chand · Answer

I agree. Attachmate should return the money + the time they wasted. I hope the new products will be better and probably similar to Visual Studio. Current product IDEs suck :)

Sam Hobbs · Answer

Yes, that comment about no comment from Microsoft was also quoted in the Mono for Android mailing list. In the mailing list they also say something about re-creating portions owned by Attachmate but I don't understand that part so I am not sure what it is saying. There are people getting their money back that they paid for MonoTouch and Mono for Android and for those that can't they are talking about a class-action lawsuit.

Vulpes · Answer

It may not be significant but, in Mary Jo Foley's article on this matter ( http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/mono-lives-in-new-startup-xamarin/9465 ) she says that : " I asked Microsoft whether it was providing any financial backing or any other support to the Xamarin team and have yet to hear back." If they had nothing to do with it, you'd think they'd be keen to say so. On the other hand, if they did have a hand in it, then it might be better not to disclose it as it could be the 'kiss of death' for the new start-up! Certainly, MS have an interest in the continuance of Moonlight and may be they could even stomach the Android product if it helps to propagate the Silverlight/Moonlight stack on that OS.

Mahesh Chand · Answer

Good point. First of all, let me start saying, that Mono will never be dead. Alright, let's say, 90%, I am sure. Please ignore the title of this post. Since I have known Migual, he has put his life into this product. I also do not think that a company owns Mono. Mono itself is an open-source platform and Migual and the Mono team pretty much owns the code. Yea, Attachmate may own MonoTouch and MonoDroid but I think Migual had some kind of contract so him and the Mono team is able to build another products on top of Mono. That said, unlike Novell and Attachmate, I am pretty sure that Migual and the team will have some free community versions of the products for developers like us. I still think Microsoft and Migual should talk. Microsoft has cash. Migual needs it. C# Developers want it.

Vulpes · Answer

Well, I was right that Miguel would have something up his sleeve but wrong that he'd find it difficult to continue with the commercial development of the iPhone and Android products :) Interestingly, Attachmate haven't yet retired the web pages for the 'old' products, so I wonder whether they'll be paying Miguel's new company to support them for the time being as they now have no Mono engineers themselves? Also interesting is that the new products are 'source compatible' with the old ones which makes one wonder how they can get away with this when Attachmate still own the source for the old products? One thing that's not so good, Mahesh, is that you'll probably have to pay Xamarin for a new license to use the new products as I don't think they'll be able to afford to continue the licenses of existing users, though they might discount the price.

Mahesh Chand · Answer

Thanks Sam. Useful information. Looks like Migual is going private with private investors. Let me write a blog on it.

Sam Hobbs · Answer

The speculation and rumors about Attachmate and MonoDroid is currently bad; worse than most expected. The initial developer of Mono is Miguel de Icaza, correct? See the Miguel de Icaza blog called "Announcing Xamarin" from him posted today. As best as it is currently understood, it will essentially be a replacement for MonoDroid and MonoDroid is dead and the new Xamarin will require a new purchase. All of that is speculation other than what the blog says and I have not even read all the blog yet.

Mahesh Chand · Answer

It would be a dream come true if mono is supported by Microsoft and it will be a part of visual studio.

Sam Hobbs · Answer

There has been a lot of talk about Microsoft taking Mono. That would not be a surprise. I assume that if Microsoft acquires MonoTouch and MonoDroid then they would also acquire Mono or at least ensure it is guaranteed support. I don't know what that means for Miguel de Icaza but he is likely ecstatic and extremely eager to share the news with the world, but he can't until the deal is final. I wonder if that has any relation with the Skype deal. Perhaps the only significance of Skype is that Microsoft is busy on that deal. Or perhaps Mono, MonoTouch and MonoDroid are relevant and this is the beginning of a new phone service.

Vulpes · Answer

Two more recent articles on the Mono saga from InfoQ here ( http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/05/Mono-Future ) and here ( http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/05/Cross-Platform-Tools ). The first of these (whilst not really having any new info) sounds a bit more optimistic about Mono's future, possibly still under the auspices of AttachMate. As for the second one, the following line had me reaching for the calendar to check it wasn't 1 April! "Microsoft is working with Mono to add support for MonoTouch and MonoDroid."

Mahesh Chand · Answer

No Sam! I have not looked at Mono mailing list. So, there is a very little market for Mono (prior to MonoDroid). The reason is obvious. Apple developers have no interest in Microsoft and vice versa. But MonoDroid opens a different discussion. Both Apple and Microsoft developers have interest in Android. C# version (MonoDroid and MonoTouch) saves ton of time for developers when building applications. However, I still see both products need lot of work. I personally think, it is in Microsoft's best interest to support Mono. I remember, Microsoft tried to hire Icaza in 2003 but it did not go well. But Now, Icaza may not have a choice but to partner with Microsoft. Actually, since 2003, Microsoft has opened its door to discuss and support all kind of open source development. I personally think, its a win-win situation.

Sam Hobbs · Answer

Unless you knoiw something I don't, the question of whether this is bad news or good news depends entirely on whether you are a pessimist or an optimist. Many people consider the absence of news to be bad news and many consider it to be good news. If we assume it is bad news then there are many very surprising results that would have very costly impacts on many. If we assume it is good news then there is nothing to do except look forward to a strengthening of any investment we have.

Vulpes · Answer

We'll have to wait and see what emerges and hope that it's not as bad as it looks. Mono is after all an open source project, which has been developed by Manuel de Icaza and his team - initially under the wing of Ximian and then Novell - and so it might be able to 'go it alone' if AttachMate are no longer interested in developing it. However, if that were the case, then I think it would be difficult for them to continue the commercial products, MonoTouch and Mono for Android. Although Microsoft have tolerated and even encouraged Mono up to now - and it certainly helps to have Moonlight covering the platforms which Silverlight doesn't - I just wonder whether the iPhone and Android products are now seen as a step too far? One thing's for sure, de Icaza is a clever guy and, if he's seen this coming, he may well have some escape route up his sleeve.

Sam Hobbs · Answer

When I said there is very little, I meant very little information. There are many messages but no information.

Sam Hobbs · Answer

Have you looked at the mono-android mailing list? There is very little information in the mailing list; there are many messages but no information. That youtube video in the other thread however is from the mailing list. It is highly likely that no news is good news. The initial developer of Mono is Miguel de Icaza, correct? He says very, very little but in a couple of messages to the mailing list, he said that there is no official count of how many people were laid off from the Mono project specifically. He also emphasized that the CEO of Attachmate has said that the roadmaps will continue, implying that Mono will continue. The fact that he does not have anything discouraging to say is likely good news.